08. Motivation vs. Discipline: Which One Matters More?
Episode 08
Motivation is a tricky topic. It’s not necessarily an emotion, and it’s also not an action. Yet, despite its mystery, we somehow depend on it to do nearly everything.
On the other hand, many of us claim to understand the concept of discipline a little better. Discipline, we argue, is all about gritting our teeth and getting the job done.
In this week’s episode of Learn and Work Smarter, I talk about the relationship between motivation and discipline, and we dig into the question of which matters more.
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The following transcript was autogenerated and may contain some interesting and silly errors. But in the name of efficiency and productivity, I am choosing not to spend my time fixing them. :)
Motivation vs Discipline : Which One Matters More?
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[00:00:00] We all know the puzzle of the chicken and the egg, right? Which one came first? Did the chicken lay the egg or did the egg come from the chicken? Today's conversation has a little bit of the same flavor, but instead of chickens and eggs, we are talking about motivation and discipline.
Bear with me.
Now the amount of questions that I get about motivation and discipline reveals to me, just how much confusion there is about the two as well as how much people struggle with the two.
So in this week's episode, we're talking all about motivation, what it is, where it comes from and how it just might be a little overrated.
On top of that, we're talking about discipline and how it relates to motivation.
[00:01:00] Now for many people, motivation can be a touchy topic because feeling not motivated or being perhaps even labeled as unmotivated has the associations of being a couch potato, of being unsuccessful.
And there's often a lot of shame that comes from being, or feeling unmotivated. I hear all the time from people like I should be motivated; I should do this.
And we're going to talk about that today for sure.
But the truth is motivation is really complicated. It's not really an emotion. Okay. But motivation is one of those things that, um, is connected to action, just like an emotion is connected to action or inaction, right? So if you're angry, well, well-adjusted people wouldn't do this, but if someone [00:02:00] were angry, they might throw something.
The anger is the feeling. And then that's what triggers an action usually. Right?
in a well-adjusted person, anger could perhaps trigger them to go for a run. Okay. Now motivation isn't necessarily an emotion, but it functions the same way as an emotion in that it triggers an action or a non-action.
If you're motivated to complete a task that's been on your to-do list, then that feeling of feeling motivated will trigger you to do that.
If you're feeling unmotivated, then no matter how much you feel that you should do something, often it leads to it being left undone.
But as I said, motivation is a complicated thing.
It is neurological.
It is chemical.
It is fickle and it's random and it shows up sometimes and makes us feel locked in and powerful and productive. And that is awesome.
But also, sometimes it doesn't show up [00:03:00] when we want it to, or when we need it to.
And that's when it causes trouble.
Now,. I have worked with over 3000 students in the course of 18 plus years as an educator. And when I say that motivation is a topic that I get asked about a lot that comes from my own personal experience being in the education industry. Okay. But also, I don't know if any of you guys are familiar with the online database Gale.
Okay. But a simple Gale search for just the basic word motivation- I've got some numbers here-- led me to 828,356 articles that were about motivation. Okay. This is just one Gale database. 76,000 books on motivation. And over 17 and a half million news articles containing the word motivation.
What does that say?
It says that we care about this because [00:04:00] motivation, motor, motor region motivation is powerful and it often has the power to make or break our day, our week, our life choices, our relationships. Okay. I think we're getting the message that it's a thing that we need to understand.
Now we're going to come back to motivation.
Okay. But I want to move a minute to discipline.
Discipline is the concept of doing something because that's what you are told or supposed to do, or it's what it's expected of you. It's a very gritty word.
It has a ring of grit of go-get-it-ness.
Of focus, of toughness.
And almost something that we have to force ourselves to do, right? Discipline is sometimes like, oh, I just have the discipline to get up and go for a run or to make that phone call. Like, there's like an element of like forcing for better or worse. Sometimes that's good, sometimes that's bad.
I'm not, I'm not going to be the judge of that today.
Now I'm going to return to motivation for a moment.
And [00:05:00] I do want to address a little disclaimer here. I am not a medical doctor. And so I am not speaking to any, um, medical factors that can influence motivation, okay?
But there are some, and I do need to say that here is that I don't cook out so that I don't come across as insensitive. Um, and ignorant and callous.
Okay. There are factors that are beyond someone's direct control that can impact motivation that are beyond the scope of what I'm talking about today.
So that could be depression, some mental health issues beyond that. Some anxiety. Being ill, physically ill having some chronic illnesses. Okay. All of those things can absolutely tank somebody's motivation and no amount of discipline is going to increase or have a positive impact on motivation in those cases.
So if you're listening to this episode today, and one of those factors applies to you, then the advice that I'm going to share and the perspective [00:06:00] I'm going to share in a moment may not be for you and that's okay. I still invite you to stick around and hear me out. But I also want you to know that I understand that motivation is, as I said in the beginning, it is so, so complicated. But my perspective, after having worked with over 3000 people over these 18 plus years.
Here it is: Is that motivation is so darn overrated. I can't preach enough how much, I believe that we rely on motivation far too much.
And that's what get it gets us in trouble. Okay. Uh, motivation, I believe, unless one of those other extenuating circumstances applies to you, is a luxury. It's nice to have, but it is not required to do the thing.
I like to think of motivation [00:07:00] as a sunny day. Okay.
I live here in the Northeast, in the United States and you know, one minute it can be sunny in one minute can be rainy, but you know what we do, we just get up and we move on with our day and we don't adjust our plans just because the sun went away. We still get up and we go to work and we go to school and we do the things and we do the laundry and we feed the dog, right? We continue forward when the sun goes behind a cloud.
Okay. I like to view motivation as, as a sunny day. It's awesome. It makes us feel good. It's nice to have. In many ways, it's a luxury. But it is not required for us to take action on the things that we need to take action on.
And I know I probably am going to ruffle some feathers here, but I really hope that you, that you hear me out.
Now we often believe that we need motivation to begin something that motivation is the precursor to doing the thing that we need to do, [00:08:00] want to do, that's being asked of us, that we're expected to do whatever. Okay. The task, the project.
But motivation is not required to begin those things. Oftentimes, it's not going to show up when we need it to. All right. If you're listening to this, you can probably think of 1,000,001 times when you wish you were motivated to do something and the motivation just wasn't there. And so you didn't act because the motivation wasn't there.
But my challenge is what if we do the thing, and in the meantime, we just hope that the motivation shows up because you know what? Oftentimes, the action comes first, and then the motivation kicks in and you're like, “Oh, hey, I started this thing and now it's not that bad. And I have some momentum and I actually like this. And now that I'm 15 minutes into this thing, I'm feeling confident. Now that I'm half an hour into this thing that I've been, you know, ignoring for weeks at a time, now I realize that it's not as unclear and as scary and ambiguous as I had [00:09:00] imagined it to be.”
we have the sequence of events wrong. We don't need to begin with motivation before we act. I say we act first and then hope that the motivation shows up. We act first and hope the sun comes out. If it does. That's awesome. Okay. If it doesn't, we continue to move forward.
That's that's really the only choice we have.
Now when we overly rely on motivation or expect motivation to show up when we need it to, then that's when we set ourselves up for failure.
That's when we set ourselves up for ultimately feeling shame that we didn't do the thing. Right. And we feel shame around the sense of like, oh, I should do this.
I know I'm supposed to do this, but I just can't bring myself to do it.
That sort of internal dialogue, even if you're [00:10:00] admitting that you're not doing the thing. Right. And you're like, “I know I should, I'm just not motivated.”
That internal dialogue is a red flag. That type of internal dialogue reveals to you that you are probably relying on motivation more than you should.
So my challenge to you is to take the first step on that task, on that project, on that thing, that you've been avoiding. Put your expectation and hope for motivation to the side. Do the thing. Yeah, I know it sounds easier said than done, but you know what? Some things are easier done than said. I don't know if that makes sense. I'm not even going to go back and listen to that.
But so many things are not as hard and complicated as our brains tell us that they are right. Like, chances are half the things on your to-do list, you could just bang them out. Like you could do them. Right. And we have these big stories about what I need to be in the mood and needs to be the right time.
I just don't. Knock it off. Today's tough [00:11:00] love today is a tough love episode. Knock it off, do the thing. And if the motivation shows up now, that is awesome. And if it doesn't, you just keep doing the thing.
Okay. Now with that said, there are some strategies... I'm not a fan of the word hack because Hack has a connotation of like, um, scammy to it. I think, but maybe that's just me, but there are some tactics you can use or we can use to increase our motivation when we feel like it would be neat to just have a little bit more.
Okay. So absolutely our environment, how we set up our environment, what space we're in the light, the tone of the light, the sounds, the people we're with. Our environment has an incredible impact on our concentration, our focus, our mood. Okay. So don't underestimate the power of a little bit of change in your environment.
Um, body doubling [00:12:00] can work really well for some people, especially if you have ADHD.
And if you have ADHD, motivation is absolutely a chronic issue. Then I suggest body doubling. Body doubling is when you have somebody else in a space with you in a room, in a classroom, in your office, even a coffee shop, and they are doing their own work as you are doing yours. You're not both working on something together.
You're often not even speaking. Right. But there is another person with the body language of productivity next to you, and that can have a powerful influence on someone who's struggling with motivation.
And then you may have heard this one before, too, when it's, this one's actually easier said than done, but connecting to the actual deeper reason why you're doing the thing.
Cause if we have absolute buy-in into the thing that we're supposed to be doing, then typically our motivation is higher. It becomes an internal motivation, [00:13:00] right. Versus the external motivation, which is where, you know, expecting a reward for something. Okay. So connecting to the deeper reason why you're doing something can make it easier to get started doing it.
Now, an example where, um, with, when I worked with my students where this is a challenge is like, let's say that they have a test coming up and they're so not motivated to study because they're like, “it's boring. I don't like this subject. I'm never going to use this subject again.”
You know, half the time they're right. Right? They're never going to use that material again.
But in those cases, I challenged the students to think about the bigger why.
Okay. I get that they don't want to study for the test. But studying for the test will get them a better grade in the class. The better grade in the class we'll get them a better GPA. The better GPA is going to get them better prospects for college. Okay. And what do they ultimately want?
They want a good job and a career and the ability to support themselves. And sometimes we just need to like, you know, take the [00:14:00] train down a few more stops, right? You connect like studying for this test to the ability to support my family in the future. Sometimes students don't see that connection.
Sometimes even my adult clients don't see that connection. And they're cognitively able to make those connections to their deeper why, but they just need somebody to vocalize that with right. Just the back and forth, like, oh, that's why it makes sense for me to care about this project, that my company is doing some new initiative.
And they weren't motivated before, but they're like, oh wait, if I perform well on this, then that would make my next performance our review better.
The next performance review could set me up better for a promotion. And once I get that promotion, then that's what I'm actually looking for. Right.
So that's what I mean by tapping into your deeper why, even though it might not be that obvious.
Now moving a little bit more to discipline. Discipline has this, you know, sense of, like I said, grittiness and toughness and just get up and do it ness.
It's very Nike. [00:15:00] Right. Which is just, just do it. Okay. If we go back to the ancient Stoics, one of my favorite, stoic philosophers, Epictetus, I've heard that pronounced so many different ways. Um, but that is how I say it. Epictetus. One of my favorite expressions, uh, quotes from him ever is “Say who you want to be and then do what you have to do.”
And like, is that not Nike?
Right? I say, say who you want to be, say what you want to be, say what it is that you got to do. Like, say out loud what it is that you're going to do and then do it. Okay, that in my view, is discipline because it's, it's following up on yourself. You make a promise to yourself that you're going to get up and you're going to go for that run.
Why would you ever let yourself down? You are the most important person in your life. I don't view discipline as a nitty [00:16:00] gritty, just, you know, knuckles to the what's the expression. Knuckles to the floor. That doesn't sound right. Like, you know what I'm trying to say. White knuckle white knuckle.
That's what. That's what I was thinking. I don't view it that way. I view discipline as a promise and a loyalty to yourself. You said you're going to be somebody. You said you're going to do something. You said you're going to follow up and complete something. You promised yourself that. Follow up. Make yourself reliable.
Make yourself dependable on yourself. Okay. Cause I think at the end of the day, we're the most important people in our own lives. Right? Because if we're not solid, then we're not solid with the people around us. And you know, the point of life is the people around us.
So I know this isn't so much of a strategy. Step 1, 2, 3 episode, other than a few tips I shared for increasing motivation if you need to. I think it's more of a [00:17:00] mindset shift that I... that I wish we talked more about. I wish we depended less on motivation and just relied not necessarily on discipline. But just on a commitment that we make to ourselves, call that discipline. call that whatever you want.
Right. But I think at the end of the day, when we view it that way, then, uh, we're going to, we're going to get the things that we want. We're going to be more productive. We're gonna study for the tests we don't want to. Cause we told ourselves we're going to. You know, show up and get behind that company initiative because, you know, we want something bigger for ourselves.
So I hope this episode was helpful.
Maybe it got you thinking about things a little bit differently. Don't forget to follow the show. If you have questions right. Absolutely head to learnandworksmarter.com where I have a form where you can submit your own questions that I will answer on a future Q and A episode. Thanks so much for listening and remember, never stop learning.
